Dear friend please relax....I felt like the way you feel many times till now...
The first time I had a similar situation I couldn't believe to my very "eyes"....I got upset in the begging by wondering how could someone who "seem" that he cares about his self ,in fact do not want to be healed!!!
I realized later that there are many people who get ill for the reason to attract other people to "run","try to help", "to seem sad" and show mercy on them!!!
That worths more than their health!!!
It sounds sick but it is a fact....every healer have to know this unbelievable action of some patients....
But this is in the principles of Reiki healing....the healer must be only a pure channel who gives the universal healing energy to those who want and need to be healed truly....there must be no attachment to outcome or emotional attachment....because then appear effects like these of yours at this moment!
Every one is free to choose dear!
Don't bother your mind for such people....no one can help them and no medicine can treat their problems!!! :-\
If they don't want it by their own!
Your positive intention exists......so the fault is not yours!!!.......so don't worry!
no reason to be disappointed don't "chase" the patients .......they will come to you!
If you want my view.....don't bother him any more......
Reiki Light and Joy, Blessings and Wishes....Relax....
I am following, not long time now obviously, this topic and I am very interesting in this case. It's very admirable of you to offer this treatment, and really, bravo to you! Now, there are two points I would like to make some comments, with full respect.
dhl wrote:
I am very disappointed with him. He is so negative. How often do you get some one to offer treatments for free for as long as he needed and as many times as he wanted? But he only wanted to do it only on Sunday because it fits his schedule.
Now, you are negative to him, and this is very human! You offer him something and you expect something in return. Not much maybe, certainly not money, but at least his gratitude and his cooperation. Not taking them, you think he is ingrate, and too negative. He is not. He has a problem in his eyes. I don't know, and don't want to find out, if I would be strong and positive enough to do anything in his position. But he has no reason to do anything you ask him to do. You are offering him a present. He can either take it or not, or even take as much of it. He does not have to do anything. So, please if you don't want to offer a present to somebody, just don't offer it. But offering it and then asking to pay you back in any way it's not a gift, is it?
dhl wrote:
If I were him, I would drop everything and take the offer.
Now, this is the other part of the problem. This man is not you, he is Mike, just Mike
Black_ki wrote:
I realized later that there are many people who get ill for the reason to attract other people to "run","try to help", "to seem sad" and show mercy on them!!!
That worths more than their health!!!
Very true... very very true! But it is not sick at all... Most of the times, when they realise that they do this thing, they stop doing it. It's not sick. It's just the way they have learned to take love from others.
Dear Dong,
Absolutely agree with John & Siva. And am sure you & others will too.
They are spot on.
special thanks for Siva for reminding us about something very important.
these are all lessons for all us Lightworkers.
Good you brought this out in the open Dong.
Its a great help for our personal development
thanks to John & you Dong too.
God Bless.
Hi Dong, I do agree with the ones that replied. Yes you gave him a gift, and it was his choice to accept it or not. You did your part, so please don't beat yourself up about it. We as lightworkers have to understand that some people just don't want to be healed. If you get time, go and read the Usui manual on the story where he tried to help a beggar, obviously, he didn't want to be helped, and he came to that realization. Again, don't be so hard on yourself, there will be plenty of others who will accept, and embrace your gift. .
[qoute]Now, you are negative to him, and this is very human! You offer him something and you expect something in return. Not much maybe, certainly not money, but at least his gratitude and his cooperation. Not taking them, you think he is ingrate, and too negative. He is not. He has a problem in his eyes. I don't know, and don't want to find out, if I would be strong and positive enough to do anything in his position. But he has no reason to do anything you ask him to do. You are offering him a present. He can either take it or not, or even take as much of it. He does not have to do anything. So, please if you don't want to offer a present to somebody, just don't offer it. But offering it and then asking to pay you back in any way it's not a gift, is it?[/quote]
Dear Siva,
Thank you for your reply. Do not get me wrong. Mike is very grateful for everything I am doing. He really trusts me and his wife said that he speaks highly of me. His wife told my wife that Mike used to be very skeptical about everything and very negative about his problem, but when he found me he started to change, but some times he still gets frustrated and said negative stuff.
I already put down my ego when I learned Reiki, so I do not expect anything from this man. I have been helping many clients for free without asking for anythng in return. I am doing this for myself as part of my spiritual journey and for my future incarnation. Therefore, material things are not important to me. Some that have money offered to pay and I have accepted if they offered.
The guides of the RMs that I know told me to get many people to do treatments on Mike, that's why I've asked my students to spare some times to help him. I am a human being and it was my reaction to his email. I was just venting and updating the progress of Mike on this forum, but I felt better after I posted here and did not send any email back to Mike. One thing for sure is that I always send positive emails to my clients and always respect their choices. I do not let small stuff bother me. I have dealt with many people like this. I always respect my clients and always happy to treat them whenever they have time to come for treatments.
The example you gave about giving some one a present is different in this case because he is taking the present by coming to my house every Sunday. I guess he accepted the cake but did not take the icing on the cake. I still treat him with respect and do not attach to the out come. I also do not advertise, but many clients just came to me so I know what you mean by chasing after the clients versus letting them come to me.
[quote]Hi Dong, I do agree with the ones that replied. Yes you gave him a gift, and it was his choice to accept it or not. You did your part, so please don't beat yourself up about it. We as lightworkers have to understand that some people just don't want to be healed. If you get time, go and read the Usui manual on the story where he tried to help a beggar, obviously, he didn't want to be helped, and he came to that realization. Again, don't be so hard on yourself, there will be plenty of others who will accept, and embrace your gift. .
Take care,
Tanisha[quote/]
Thanks dear Tanisha,
As I have posted above that Mike really wanted to be healed, but he expected a big and fast miracle. And he is too busy and does not have time for himself. This is not black and white or Yes or No. He accepted the gift and wanted to be healed, but does not utilized everything that was available to him. That's his choice and I respect his choice. Things like this do not bother me. And I never do, say, or show any negative side toward my clients.
I do not think Mike is the kind of person, who needs attention or wanted to be sicked so he can get attention from others. My mother in law is one of those kind of people and I know the different between the two of them. As I have mentioned in the earlier post that this man is so busy making money and that's all he wanted to do. After he met me, he started doing some exercises and has lost weight. He really wanted to be healed but expected the outcome to come right away. That's his problem. I already told him from day one that I do not want to give him false hope and did not give him guaranteed that his eye sight will be healed 100%. I just told him that if medical doctors have given up on him, just let me try to see what happened. But after five treatments he started to doubt everything. After reading some of my positive emails, he felt better and promised to have hope and faith. I always say postivie things to all my clients and they felt better and tried to be more positive. This is what I have to do to change their negative attitude because they have been thinking like this for a long, long time. I am not posting here to say negative things about Mike and that was not my intention. I was venting for just a moment .
I am not judging you, just advising you about something it seems to me not totally perfect, and the best way I can see things of course, and this is in no way starkly correct I do mistakes, as - I believe - all people and try to learn from them, and then, when the case is alike, I express my opinion, and the receiver would decide if this would be helpfull for him or not.
dhl wrote:
I am a human being and it was my reaction to his email. I was just venting and updating the progress of Mike on this forum, but I felt better after I posted here and did not send any email back to Mike.
I am happy for that It is nice you are a human being, and it is easy and very human to react than to act, and since this reaction has helped you to release your not-positive feelings, and to make place in your mind and heart for more positive feelings for Mike, then you have done a very nice thing by posting this reaction here.
dhl wrote:
The example you gave about giving some one a present is different in this case because he is taking the present by coming to my house every Sunday. I guess he accepted the cake but did not take the icing on the cake. I still treat him with respect and do not attach to the out come.
This is exactly the case. As I've said in the previous post, "He can either take it or not, or even take as much of it."
I am very pleased to be informed that you still treat him with respect, and that you care to be not attached to the outcome. Keep it that way
dhl wrote:
I also do not advertise, but many clients just came to me so I know what you mean by chasing after the clients versus letting them come to me.
Well, that is not my words. They belong to the post of Black_ki. And I don't think that he ever wanted to say that you should not advertise, just not to run after them. And to this, I totally agree with him.
Keep doing the best that you can for this is - obviously - the best thing to do, and please do remember that even if you do a mistake, you have the right to do it and to learn from it.
Dear Dong,
Its good you share this with us.
Your reaction was only human. Nothing wrong. But our dear members are right too.
We learn along the way. Perfection is very hard to achieve. but we do try our best. don't we all!
The other thing is you said Mike is busy pursuing money. why don't you charge him?
He will heal much faster.
dhl wrote:
I already put down my ego when I learned Reiki, so I do not expect anything from this man. I have been helping many clients for free without asking for anything in return. I am doing this for myself as part of my spiritual journey and for my future incarnation. Therefore, material things are not important to me. Some that have money offered to pay and I have accepted if they offered.
Sorry to point this out. Please don't take it as a criticism directed at you. It's a thought we Lightworkers mostly harbour. Me too.
I was told by some respected masters that even this is a form of ego. And I do agree with them.
I bring this out purely from a educative point of view for experienced as well as new Reiki practitioners.
The day we overcome this thought we will be even better healers.
Its tough. That's why Master Usui advised to charge a nominal fee. This way we complete the energy cycle & are no longer attached to the outcome; result is a complete & quicker healing
Otherwise we have to follow a saying back home in India.
I quote, " Neki kar Darya mein dhal." unquote. It means do a good deed & dissolve it in the Ocean.
I wonder what other members have to say.
God Bless
I agree with you and your masters that it is a form of ego indeed. Practicing Raja Yoga unmask to my knowledge - and trying to my conscience - many masks of egoism, many I still keep them, but at least they don't pass unobserved. But what I find helpfull is, that if I cannot in some case overcome my ego, then I may can find a way to please a "purer" ego. I know it seems silly, but it works, and the purer gets purer and purer, and hopefully, someday, in many lives time, pure.
[quote]Sorry to point this out. Please don't take it as a criticism directed at you. It's a thought we Lightworkers mostly harbour. Me too.
I was told by some respected masters that even this is a form of ego. And I do agree with them.
I bring this out purely from a educative point of view for experienced as well as new Reiki practitioners.
The day we overcome this thought we will be even better healers.
Its tough. That's why Master Usui advised to charge a nominal fee. This way we complete the energy cycle & are no longer attached to the outcome; result is a complete & quicker healing
Otherwise we have to follow a saying back home in India.
I quote, " Neki kar Darya mein dhal." unquote. It means do a good deed & dissolve it in the Ocean.
I wonder what other members have to say.
God Bless[quote/]
Dear Steve,
I disagree with you on the Ego thing. When you have compassion for people, it is from the heart. There is not ego in compassion.
I also disagree with the charging...the result will not heal quicker if I charged. There are many posts on the other forums that debate about this and I do not want to go into it, but I just know what ever I feel right. FYI - I am a newbie on this forum, but I am not a new pratitioner.
Dear Siva,
I do not know where you are coming from, but do not sit there and tell people that they have an ego problem. You are the one who said do not say negative things and do not judge people, but you should go back to reread your post. It is very negative and not very helpful. I do not even know you and you do not know me, so do not preach. And please folow what you preach.
[quote]Dear Steve,
I agree with you and your masters that it is a form of ego indeed. Practicing Raja Yoga unmask to my knowledge - and trying to my conscience - many masks of egoism, many I still keep them, but at least they don't pass unobserved. But what I find helpfull is, that if I cannot in some case overcome my ego, then I may can find a way to please a "purer" ego. I know it seems silly, but it works, and the purer gets purer and purer, and hopefully, someday, in many lives time, pure.
Here is a write up from one of the well respected RMs, Vince Amardo. I totally agreed with this RM.
Energy Exchange
This concept of energy exchanges is one that was dogmatized into the practices of the The Reiki Alliance as they codified what their understanding of Reiki was in the first years after Mrs. Takata passed away. The idea or concept of energy exchanges is the idea that if one receives a gift, such as Reiki, that there must be an equal exchange of energy to "balance" things out, so the universal balance is maintained. This philosophy was added to Reiki by students of Mrs. Takata.
It is said, that Mrs. Takata believed that Westerners would not value Reiki unless they paid dearly for the Training and so used this to charge the $10,000 price for Reiki Master training. Later masters added in the idea of "energy exchange" in order to justify this practice of high charges. This was never part of the original teachings of Usui. Some of the masters trained by Mrs. Takata made their Master students promise to earn their living only from doing Reiki. While this had the effect of developing very dedicated healers, it also had the effect of making Masters very competitive. Additionally, they became very selective in accepting master students as a result. So as you can see, issues of money, business, and competition entered the picture and from all this developed the idea of energy exchanges.
Some advance the arguement that everything is energy and money "represents energy". That is, that money is a form of energy that is used to get other things. It is a form that is valued by others. (If we wrote this in a formula, would it be: if money is "energy", then money energy = spiritual energy?)
Some say that not keeping the exchange "creates a vacuum in the universe". Some say that if they do not charge they "dishonor reiki". Others teach that if an exchange is not done there is a "karmic imbalance". Others teach that people will not accept the worth of what you offer if you do not charge. Still others feel that if they don't charge that the message you sent to the universe is that you are not worthy of receiving anything. My friends, ideas such as "honoring reiki", feeling worthy, balance, creating a vacuum, maintaining karmic balance, are not about honor, they are about money, they are about ego. They are ways we are attached to the outcome of doing reiki, ways that maintain the illusion of seperateness. People heal when they are ready, paying money will not change this. Honor comes from holding something dear in our being. It again needs to be stressed, that these words are not to disparage anyone, or be negative toward charging but rather to clean up some of the arguments of justification that people use. The Universe *IS*. Reiki *IS*. Balance, as is conceived of here is human contrivance and ego. What *IS* does not need us to keep a score sheet.
If you are a healer who makes their living healing others, it would be essential to charge and appropriate to do so. But do not confuse honor with money. They are not the same. Charge if you wish, don't charge if you wish.
In one of Takata's teaching stories, she tells the story of Usui and the Beggars. The story was that "Usui began to share this new gift with the beggars on the streets of Tokyo. He found that they would repeatedly come back for healing and did not appreciate the gift he gave them." It was then added that as a result that he vowed never to give reiki away again for free.
This story is used as a justification for the "energy exchange" and for the justification for having people pay dearly for receiving reiki. The teaching story Takata told, of Usui working in the slums of Tokyo is just that, a teaching story, whose moral was that some people refuse to change. Historically, Usui worked with people all over Tokyo following a major earthquake, poor or not. He did not charge for this. It is said that he maintained his own business. There was not a charge for being a member of his organization, the Usui Reiki Ryoho Gakkai, but a small monthly fee to help keep the club going. It exists to this day. The moral of Mrs. Takata's teaching story has become so far removed from it's original meaning by the energy exchange position, it is all but forgotten. The moral of the story of the beggars is that some people do not want to change. It is easier to stay where they are, to take the easy (all be it painless) way then it is to change. People who are reinforced for being ill will stay ill.
The universe *is*. Reiki *is*. What *is* does not need human ego to play energy Robin Hood to try to equalize and balance things. If energy exchanges were so important to maintaining spiritual balances of energy in the universe one might expect other spiritual leaders to have mentioned them. I have searched the Gita, the Vedas, the Bible, the Koran, the Tao Te Ching, Buddhism and cannot find exchanges. One might think that if it was of such import that it might be mentioned. You can find many healings, acts of kindness, compassion. You can see the radical loving kindness and compassion of Jesus who says, "your faith has healed you", but he didn't add "now you owe me to balance this out". In these many traditions of these great teachers, you don't see worthiness, money, balance, exchanges. In reiki, the relationship of teacher and student is perfectly "balanced", just as it is.
Charge if you need, do not if you do not. It is as simple as that.
Dear Dong,
But you did say,"I am doing this for myself as part of my spiritual journey and for my future incarnation."
Its hard to let go of this, But necessary.
Please don't take it personally. we are all still learning. Aren't we. Its immaterial how long ones practice is. We will always be students.
Now about the Energy Exchange & Charges.
Its a personal choice. Thats fine.
Then why were you worried about Mike's casual reaction?
He took it for granted because it was free. thats what annoyed you. maybe I am wrong. No problem.
Well must agree that Takata, the Alliance & Takata's relations were wrong in charging such huge amounts.
but charge they should. They could have kept it nominal. when you overcharge the energy cycle is heavier on one side.
It should be balanced.
But when we don't charge a cent many times we think that its a obligation that the patient/ student should be grateful to us or bound to us. In some cases we think we are improving our own karma. It's not compassion. Compassion is unconditional. Otherwise it only ego-satisfaction. When we are sure we overcome all this we can opt for free. I know a few who are close to it. Me not yet. Still way to go.
About the respected Vince Amador, hope I am right that you were referring the same person.
There is a tradition that there be a healthy energy exchange between teacher & student. we call it "Gurudakshina" in Sanskrit & other Indian languages. its doesn't necessarily have to be monetary. we read it often in the Vedic texts & holy books. Its interpretation has to be careful. I am surprised he missed it.
well if you follow the free culture follow it to the core. its a good choice.
About Takata. We are in no position to judge her actions. She must have had her good reasons.
Well about Siva. He mentioned in his intro that he is from Greece. We all know where he is from. I think you were too harsh on Siva. He didn't say anything offensive, nor did he say he is perfect. He was not judgemental.
One should be pleased if people learn from our mistakes.
we all have our bad days.
No hard feelings mate. we are one in spirit.
God Bless
Last edited by hotice_steve on Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
